Gentleman Finn skrev: ↑16. mar 2024, 21:09
Det blev til et TCL C935. Lækkert tv!
Hvordan finder jeg nemmest de bedste billedesettings til dét tv?
Spændende!
Held & Lykke med skærmen.
Lidt indstillinger du kan prøve:
Svar #57 her:
https://www.avforums.com/threads/tcl-c9 ... t-30704567
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TCL C935 Owners and Discussion Thread
Thread starterJurin Start dateSep 8, 2022 Tagsdiscussion tcl thread
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SinNovedad
SinNovedad
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#51
I've some questions.
-What's the internet speed that the TV reaches when you connect it to WIFI? (Using 5 Ghz band) It's supposed to use WIFI6 so it should be higher than the average TV's with WIFI5 (to get the benefits you must have a router that's also WIFI6) However, it would be good to have a measurement even if your router isn't WFI6.
-The TV has a 3.5mm Jack port to connect headphones, do you think you could do a little sound quality test? I'm interested to know if it presents some type of electrical or static/white noise when there's no sound/content playing, and how is the sound in general. No need to use expensive headphones, cheap $5 ones are fine.
-How is the black level performance in a pitch black room? According to your eye, do you think that the effect of "TV off" is achieved when there's a completely black background? (LD set to High) In the scenes when almost the entire screen is black and there is an object in the center, do you think the "floating object" effect can be achieved? (where the black colors of the TV are so deep that they blend with the total darkness of your room, making very difficult to know where the edges of the TV start and end and generating the effect that the object in the middle is floating).
-In addition to the previous question, how is the performance of the black level in content with black bars? (with LD set to High) Do you notice if there's any sacrifice of the depth of the black color in the bars? as if they were more gray or with less depth (compared to a completely black background) On the TCL C835 this happens and it's a bit noticeable, especially if the scene is demanding, but it may not be the case for the C935 since it has almost 3 or 4 times more dimming zones, so maybe it doesn't need sacrifice the depth of the black bars to combat blooming.
Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
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Jurin
Jurin
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#52
JurgenHanz said:
Did you measure the color gamut? Also are you not going to return the TV now?
Pretty typical QLED.
BT.2020 70.6%
DCI-P3 D65 93.3%
BT.709 99.8%
.. Still undecided. But more positive. Nothing else in this price point can compete really. Would an X95K be better to justify a 2400 euro price difference as it is currently? Heck no.
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JurgenHanz
JurgenHanz
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#53
Jurin said:
Pretty typical QLED.
BT.2020 70.6%
DCI-P3 D65 93.3%
BT.709 99.8%
.. Still undecided. But more positive. Nothing else in this price point can compete really. Would an X95K be better to justify a 2400 euro price difference as it is currently? Heck no.
Click to expand...X95k and QN90B are both too inferior to be a clear upgrade especially for their prices.
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Jurin
Jurin
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#54
SinNovedad said:
I've some questions.
-What's the internet speed that the TV reaches when you connect it to WIFI? (Using 5 Ghz band) It's supposed to use WIFI6 so it should be higher than the average TV's with WIFI5 (to get the benefits you must have a router that's also WIFI6) However, it would be good to have a measurement even if your router isn't WFI6.
-The TV has a 3.5mm Jack port to connect headphones, do you think you could do a little sound quality test? I'm interested to know if it presents some type of electrical or static/white noise when there's no sound/content playing, and how is the sound in general. No need to use expensive headphones, cheap $5 ones are fine.
-How is the black level performance in a pitch black room? According to your eye, do you think that the effect of "TV off" is achieved when there's a completely black background? (LD set to High) In the scenes when almost the entire screen is black and there is an object in the center, do you think the "floating object" effect can be achieved? (where the black colors of the TV are so deep that they blend with the total darkness of your room, making very difficult to know where the edges of the TV start and end and generating the effect that the object in the middle is floating).
-In addition to the previous question, how is the performance of the black level in content with black bars? (with LD set to High) Do you notice if there's any sacrifice of the depth of the black color in the bars? as if they were more gray or with less depth (compared to a completely black background) On the TCL C835 this happens and it's a bit noticeable, especially if the scene is demanding, but it may not be the case for the C935 since it has almost 3 or 4 times more dimming zones, so maybe it doesn't need sacrifice the depth of the black bars to combat blooming.
Click to expand...Well the strange thing is that it doesn't actually see my 5GHz network at all only the 2.4GHz (Asus RT-AC66U router). It does list some of my neighbours 5GHz networks (or so they claim based on the SSID). My internet connection is 250M/100M and the 2.4GHz network is giving me around 235Mbit/s. down (1G USB dongle of course the full 250). So can't really test that any further I'm afraid.
It's zero nits black at LD High and it quite aggressively minimises blooming so I'd say yes to "floating object". Of course it's not an OLED so if you have HDR content with stupid bright subtitles they will bloom (example). But the blooming to me looks quite "natural" because the brightness level where you'd see blooming you would have "blooming" and glare in your eyes anyways. Keep in mind that I come from a Sony XG95 which is a blooming mess with HDR. 60 zones vs. 1920 is a staggering improvement. For someone coming in from an OLED it might be a different experience.
Black bars are black to me. Only exception when you have subtitles on. But if your only concern is absolute blacks & black bars then get an OLED.
LCD has other benefits that OLED does not have which are more important to me
Vastly better motion on low framerate content
Far less stutter on 24fps
No dithering on dark tones (or far less)
No chrominance overshoot
Color volume
No burn in. Set it and forget it. No need to baby it for the first 200h.
Easier to calibrate because no ABL, or ASBL
Brightness
Brightness stability (far less ABL)
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SinNovedad
SinNovedad
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#55
Jurin said:
My internet connection is 250M/100M and the 2.4GHz network is giving me around 235Mbit/s. down
That's excellent, it's a very good sign that the 2.4 band is capable of giving you almost all of your speed, it gives a clue to what to expect from the 5 Ghz band.
Yes, OLED is not an option for me because I don't want to have to worry about burn-ins or having to treat the TV almost like a baby, I intend to use it most of the time as a PC Monitor, so it will have to be ON 5 or 6 hours a day or more and you can imagine it, Windows bar, Chrome bar, Text, Word, etc. a Burn In nightmare. So I was looking for a TV as close to an OLED in black level, I don't care much about blooming in subtitles since it's something to be expected. The black bars and "floating content" thing was more to rule out a problem that was being seen in the US version of the C835 line and some bugs with the LD.
Within the 2022 line the "competitors" of the C935 would be the QN90B and X95K, however, the QN90B has a much inferior Local Dimming algorithm than the TCL and I hate its OS and not to mention the X95K that from what I've seen is a blooming monster in real content, its native contrast is only 1,723:1 (almost like an IPS, despite being VA) and with the LD set to High it barely reaches 5,195:1, it's not even capable of reaching the base native contrast of the TCL with LD off, the C935 has a little less base contrast than the C835 because it has a filter to increase the viewing angles that the C835 doesn't have (it's a very similar filter to the one used by the QN90B this year)
Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
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1
SinNovedad
SinNovedad
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#56
Another reason not to go for the X95K (which almost nobody talks about) is that it has a response time of 9.9ms (100% GTG) which will make you see Black Smearing when gaming or using the TV as a monitor, since the screen being 120hz (1/120 x 1000) needs at least a response time of 8.3ms or less and with 9.9ms you fall short. The TCL C835 according to THIS source has a G-T-G time response of 6.5ms (Not yet confirmed by any other source, and it's not confirmed or measured if this number is 0-100% or 0-80%) which is excellent and should not have black smearing of any kind (or at least not be so noticeable), and its better than QN90B which is 7.9ms. (don't confuse response time with input lag, as some VA monitors/tv's have input lags of 1-5ms but a gray to gray response time of 10ms or more)
And trust me when I tell you that the problem of 4:2:2 subsampling at 4K 120hz (that these TCL have) is nothing compared to the black smearing problem that some VA panels with a slow GTG response time have (Black smearing also affects games)
It can even harm the Local Dimming algorithm, and cause the edges of fast-moving objects to show colors that shouldn't be there. This black smearing issue was present on last year's TCL C825 as it had a GTG response time of around 11ms
smearing.png
Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
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Jurin
Jurin
Established Member
Sep 15, 2022
#57
Settings for C935
Display and sound / Intelligent Picture
- Disable all under this menu
Picture (SDR)
Picture preset: Movie
(Also Standard mode measures the exact same when you match the settings with Movie mode. So basically it’s just a copy of Movie. So you could basically use Standard for daytime and Movie for Nightime with different gamma etc. for example.)
Brightness: ~20
This is roughly 120cd/m2 on Local Dimming: High. Go higher if your room is bright
Colour Saturation: 50
(If you use the internal Youtube app dial it back to ~35. It’s not accurate until they fix the Color Space bug but at least it’s not grossly oversatured)
Advanced settings / Brightness settings:
Brightness: same setting as above
Contrast: 90
Black level: 50
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black stretch: Off
Dynamic brightness: Off
Local dimming: High
Local contrast: Off (Maybe 'Low' if you want a bit of 3D pop to the image. But beware it will clip shadows. Preference not reference)
Gamma: 2 (Set to your room lighting condition so you see shadow details properly. My unit tracks Gamma 2.35 after calibration on setting 2 and is perfect for dark room)
Advanced settings / Colour:
Colour saturation: Same setting as above
Tint: 50
Blue light filter: Off
Colour temperature: -5 (Warm: slider all the way to the left)
Advanced settings / Clarity:
Sharpness: 0-20. Depends on your source quality. Good quality 1080p / 4K sources 0-10. Poor sources: I wouldn't go above 20.
Digital noise reduction: Off. Removes compression artefacts. Depends on your source quality. Pick the lowest setting that gives a good result. Turn off for good quality sources.
Noise reduction: Off. Removes random noise. Depends on your source quality. Pick the lowest setting that gives a good result. Turn off for good quality sources.
Gradation clear: Off. Attempts to smooth out banding. Pick the lowest setting that gives a good result (which mostly is off or low)
Advanced settings / Motion clarity:
Set to your liking
I use: Blur reduction: 9, Judder reduction: 2. This gives a very nice smooth motion with no SOE or Stutter
Advanced settings / Expert calibration:
RGB-mode: Off
You will need it properly calibrated for these but rough 2-point might help:
White balance / 2-points: R-Gain: -5, G-Gain: 0, B-Gain: -7, R-offset: 0, G-offset: 0, B-offset: -1. See how it looks. Might not work for your panel.
20 point: Off unless calibrated
Color space: Auto
Screen settings:
Auto format: On. Seems to work just fine.
Screen mode: 16:9.
Overscan: Off.
Apply all picture mode:
Basically the settings have two modes:
Per source ("Current source") and Per picture mode ("All source").
Ideally you would make the settings you want on one input & picture mode then switch this to 'All source'. This will then copy all the settings you made to all inputs. If anyone has more insight how this works please let me know..
In reality this has some bugs. Some settings might just refuse to copy over.
For HDR
Just use the same settings for HDR but:
Brightness: 100%
Contrast: 100%
Gamma: 0
Dynamic Tone Mapping: Off
The same rough 2-point WB adjustment might work here as well. Some HDR-modes don't even provide WB settings.
Also the IMAX -mode is very usable and fairly accurate.
Make sure that if it's using Dolby Vision it's not using Dolby Vision IQ (which is the default). It's got processing you can't turn off and looks crap imho. Use Dolby Vision Dark for dark room (nightime) viewing and Dolby Vision Bright for a bright room (daytime).